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Wales vs. England

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Wales vs. England Empty Wales vs. England

Post by Basil Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:50 am

After looking at the respective performances in the last 3 rounds, can't see anything but a Wales win by at least 10 points Sad

England have been poor all 6N, Wales getting steadily better

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Post by Raggs Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:03 am

Don't know about steadily better for wales, they looked better in the 2nd half against the Irish than the rest of the tourney I reckon. When all is said and done, they struggled against the Scots, made very hard work of a worse French side than we faced, lost to the Irish...

Going to be another slog of a match I guess, not too confident though.
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Post by quind Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:38 am

Wales attack is based around Roberts gaining the go forward. Against Scotland they gave Roberts the ball just 3 times. If you think that's an improved side you must have thought them utter rubbish.

Wales slight favourites being at home. Can't call the match though, and at test level that's how I want it.

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Post by quind Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:02 pm

Ben Morgan out. So either as we were, or Haskell to the bench and Croft starts, or Vunipola starts and either Croft or Haskell on the bench.

As it sounds like Launch and Parling will be fit we might not need Croft and Wood to cover the lineout whilst bringing in non lineout locks. So based on something else will the selection be

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Post by Basil Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:47 pm

I never rated Parling until yesterday - we need him fit

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Post by Raggs Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:34 pm

Just to add to the joy, Parling, Launch and Lawes picked up knocks... so let's hope they're all better...
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Post by Raggs Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:15 am

OK, Parling and Lawes are fine, Launch is having a late fitness test to see, I really hope he passes.

Apparently, and considering that most press leaks have been accurate, Haskell has been benched for Croft...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/9928846/Six-Nations-2013-Tom-Croft-poised-to-start-Englands-Grand-Slam-decider-against-Wales.html

Guess it gives us a quality winger that matches North and Cuthbert for size Very Happy.
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Post by quind Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:28 am

England U20 match Vs Wales should be shown on http://s4c.co.uk/clic/e_live.shtml

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Post by Meeeeeeeat_ Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:31 pm

huge sigh of relief all 3 second rows are fit and playing. and excited to see croft and farrell back. should be intense
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Post by quind Fri Mar 15, 2013 6:52 am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/horse-racing/21791386

Mike Tindall, noting after some chat about the nags that England have a base game built on their defence and applying pressure that will win them games. He also notes they can score points in attack

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Post by quind Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:02 pm

Roof to be closed, which I'm pleased with

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Post by quind Sat Mar 16, 2013 6:35 am

A nice win for the England U20 Vs Wales. Quite a few names missing for both sides, and it was England who looked much stronger.


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Post by mmm Sat Mar 16, 2013 10:37 am

Roob wrote:Roof to be closed, which I'm pleased with

Whilst this may well favour England, in general I'm against playing rugby indoors, it's an all weather game.
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Post by Raggs Sat Mar 16, 2013 7:29 pm

Soooo.

I didn't see much of it in decent quality, it seemed like there were a few replays to suggest we were hard done by in the scrum, but most of all, I think our attack has been rather exposed in the last couple of days, butchering easy overlaps etc etc

Seen some mentions of not having a real 7, but I don't know (really) how badly we did at the breakdown, but from what I saw (again not great quality), we weren't destroyed there by any means.
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Post by Sadiq Sat Mar 16, 2013 7:53 pm

Well, we were bullied at the breakdown and scrum. Nobody in the backline knows how to pass the ball. No big ball carrier in the backrow and we didn't have a gameplan.

Marler should not start for England until he learns how to scrummage. 36 need to start in the centre.

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Post by quind Sat Mar 16, 2013 8:38 pm

Marler came under quite a lot of criticism for a period in the scrum for Quins last season. Oddly at the same period of time that Kohn their strong lock in the scrum was out injured.

So two thoughts on dropping Marler, how much support is he not getting from Launchbury and Parling, and then really he's done very well in his early test career so far.

England today failed to put numbers into the breakdown, and that's really annoying when it was the same problem we had Vs Italy. Also we have away soft pens when there was no need, Ashton one, and Tom Youngs (not for the first time) very much to the fore.

Not the end of the world, a big team gave us a beating, same as SA in many ways. Hopefully we'll look at getting Vunipola a little fitter, especially if Youngs stays in the front row. Might want to look at Garvey and or Attwood in the locks, and a carrier back in the team at 8 I suspect is on the cards anyway.

For me we can't have the whole midfield unable to pass, that rubbish off the left from Farrell today was risible. And I can see why Burt likes Goode at 15, but even leaving aside he didn't go wholly well today I'd rather see a different balance in the back three.

Good news is this will limit the number of English players flogged on the Lions tour, perhaps that was the plan.....

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Post by mmm Sun Mar 17, 2013 9:50 am

Yeah I gotta agree with your analysis guys, we did seem to get penalised somewhat unfairly in some of the scrums, but even if we hadn't been we would have still lost.

There were a couple of occasions where we had an overlap and the ball-carrier just smashed on ahead into the tackle with no thought of an offload. This also happened against Italy. I don't know if it's the fault of the ball carrier or because the people outside weren't screaming loud enough or that our team is somewhat inexperienced and just didn't see we had an overlap.

Ashton's performance was subpar again, and there seem to be plenty of skilled wings in the league who should be chosen before him.

I thought Brown did well, not just the try saving tap tackle but in defense in general. Manu also looked good at times (lets forget about that shocker of a knock-on) but I wonder if he wouldn't be better as a flanker, thus allowing 36 to start in the centre alongside Barrett.

Farrell looked a bit off his game and Flood looked pretty good when he came on, but given Flood's performance against Italy I wonder if we have any other options for the 10 jersey.
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Post by Raggs Sun Mar 17, 2013 10:27 am

I thought Flood did fine against Italy myself, 6/6 kicks, made a lot of halfbreaks, not really his fault no one backed him up quickly, the one time we did was when we looked like scoring a try.

I think if we had 36 at 12, things would improve. Defenses would need to consider him, and the fact he can pass, so suddenly defending us is harder, and thus they need to be a bit more careful. He could release Tuilagi, or send it out to the winger (not Ashton). I think if Tuilagi also got more useful ball, he'd perhaps be more willing to pass it out himself, since it wouldn't be a case of "Finally! Lets run!".

We have some cracking wingers, who really should be getting into the EPS at least.

The Arg tour will tell us a lot, since I doubt any of our back 3 will be travelling to Aus.
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Post by quind Sun Mar 17, 2013 10:28 am

Can't just play Manu at flanker (please don't anyone admit this to Beard) but it is fairly technical. And there's just no way I can see England or Leicester spending time trying to convert a vary dangerous centre.

Brown missed a tackle on Cuthbert as well as making that tap on North. But his main chance came when he had the ball out on the left inside their 22, perhaps it's not being a winger, but when you're about to get tackled there that ball has to be kicked along the floor towards (or just inside) the corner flag, so at best the covering FB puts it out for a 5m lineout. Brown did make a nice break once at FB, and then produced some pish poor handling

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Post by quind Sun Mar 17, 2013 10:33 am

Raggs wrote:I thought Flood did fine against Italy myself, 6/6 kicks, made a lot of halfbreaks, not really his fault no one backed him up quickly, the one time we did was when we looked like scoring a try.

I think if we had 36 at 12, things would improve. Defenses would need to consider him, and the fact he can pass, so suddenly defending us is harder

Even if Flood thinks those half breaks are working and just no one is supporting if they're not working stop bloody doing them. It's basically my problem with Flood, he'll keep running a play even if it's not working.

Strongly agree on 36, but just to add his kicking game adds at least as much as his passing

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Post by Raggs Sun Mar 17, 2013 10:41 am

Fair point Roob, even if you are successfully pulling off a strategy, if no one else is playing to it, it's still not successful.

But that's one of my main reasons for getting rid of Ashton, we're not playing the sort of game he's suited for, by a long way. The fact I don't think he's playing it very well either is just additional to that.

36 kicking skills would help too, and ashtons chasing and tackle could be good, but I'd rather have a winger who'd chase and compete for the ball, something that Ashton is scared to do. 36 may help Farrell too, in as much that Farrell can just be confident in what he should do (get it to 36).

I also think our SHs are a problem, neither of them gives particularly quick services from the breakdown, Youngs has a very nice pass, but takes his time from when he picks it up, Care gets it out quickly, but with a floaty pass. Wouldn't mind seeing a few other options.
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Post by quind Sun Mar 17, 2013 11:25 am

Breakdown was an utter mess yesterday. Gareth Edwards wouldn't have given quick ball off that.

What I do think Catt should look at is where our passes are going. Virtually none invite a player to run onto the ball, so our own passes are aiding in causing our own moves to stutter and fail

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Post by Meeeeeeeat_ Sun Mar 17, 2013 12:08 pm

as for SH's, when lee dickson first made his debut off the bench last year he did really well doing this, maybe he should at least play midweek games to see where he's at.
please please please bring wade. 36 needs to start either with tuilagi, or with barritt depending on opposition with tuilagi being impact player.
i can see why lancaster barely used them, cus all the games were tight.. except scotland.. where 36 starts and hey, everything clicks we get 4 tries...
but dissappointed we didnt see more of 36 in the campaign and really was looking forward to seeing burns making a name for himself
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Post by The Zec Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:01 pm

I'd like to see an aggressive strategy from the off, with Care (and some improved passing), Burns, 36, Manu, Wade, May and Brown. There's all the attack you'll need, and with a bench including Youngs, Farrell, Barritt &/or Goode you've got your conservative option ready to come on and shut the game down.

I'd also like to see players encouraged to run at arms, rather than centre mass (Looking at you Manu) and also some more faith in training ground moves. Some poor execution cost us a try yesterday, but why was it executed poorly? Too much time in the gym, not enough time on fast-paced handling skills...
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Post by Basil Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:24 am

Hopefully this will see the end of the 'Farrell' experiment - fine he can come on as a substitute but if we are behind then can't see what he is going to do.

England woefully shown up by having 4 Number 6s + cover from lock that were also both 6s

Not by any means the end of the world this result and it could be what is needed to make this team great but definitely has shown up our limitations

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