Average member amount/Total salary increase

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Average member amount/Total salary increase

Post by Guest on Tue Jul 30, 2013 3:12 pm

Posted this in the mainsite Questions Clubroom but though I'd try and get an opinion from here too:



I know I'm gonna be in the red for the next season or two, been writing up a finance spreadsheet try to work out a rough estimate of when I will make it back to black.

I'm not looking for exact numbers, just values to guide me. I'm after:

Average amount of members for a mid-table English Div. 4 team.

End of season salary increase (a very rough percentage is fine, weekly salary is currently 160k if that helps)

Any help appreciated..

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Re: Average member amount/Total salary increase

Post by quind on Tue Jul 30, 2013 3:32 pm

Even just for the people posting on this site currently in Div 4 the number of members varies in the 100s.  How many members do you have currently?

Also what sort of training to do you currently provide, i.e. what level, and are you training with individual trainers and putting 6+ nets on a player? In any event the bad news here is that end of season salary increases, certainly if training with level 3 or 4 could well be more than the minor sponsor increase of $20k, at best I'd plan to be revenue neutral on salary increases Vs the extra sponsor income

Is there any point in the near future that you'll go into the black by (I think it'll cost $15k or so) as destroying standing in your stadium will help?  It sounds counter intuitive but standing costs you money, about $4 for every place sold, and it costs still more for each place that doesn't sell.  So in about four home games you'll have covered the cost of removing standing.

How much debt are you currently in, and what is your profit/loss for a 2 week cycle home and away, assuming no cup matches?

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Re: Average member amount/Total salary increase

Post by Guest on Tue Jul 30, 2013 4:05 pm

This is my first full season.  I took on the team about 4 weeks before the end of the last and secured promotion to Div4.  My current members are 834 and my member increases going backwards are 34,43,43,38,53,76.

My training facilities/coach are level 2, with all level 1s individuals and level 2 attack and defence coaches.

As far as individual training goes I have 3 players on about 6 sessions and the other 6 split between three more players.  I am aiming for to round off my teams abilities as I know there will be no recruitment for a couple of seasons with these finances.

My team CSR increase each session (as reported by BOrganiser) is around 4.5K CSR

After my home match this week my balance will be $-87k, in a two week cycle I am currently losing $63k.

If I gain no more members then I will end the season (taking into account the end-of-season two weeks with no home income) with -$470k.  If I were to gain members at an average of 20/wk then it would be nearer -$430k.

I am very confident of a 4th place finish which would give prize money of $189k to leave me starting the next season about $220k in debt.

I was counting on the minor sponsor increase being able to keep me from going over the $500k bankruptcy line next season, and then the next minor sponsor increase to push me back towards profitability. But if salary will match that then this won't work!

I only found out about the 'standing' costing money recently, too late to destroy it...

In my mad spending spree after winning Div 4  I did splash out on Lv. 2 Youth academy, Lv.2 Youth Coach and Lv.1 Scouts and Managers.  If I were to destroy these then that would add $22k/wk,  which would leave me much healthier, but I'm very fond of them, I don't really want to lose what I've bought.

But if salary increase is going to be more or neutral then minor sponsor increase then I guess I have no choice...

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Re: Average member amount/Total salary increase

Post by quind on Tue Jul 30, 2013 4:23 pm

Something has to give. And I'd say make it the YA that goes.

You would not be the first person to build a YA only to have to scrap it or scale back, I've done it myself, and it's a far bigger crowd than just us two. There is an arguement that you could for now pursue YA training and scrap senior training, but, and it's a big but, the YA is only worth it with a level 3 set up, anything else is a waste of time and money, sadly or otherwise. So as you will not likely be able to expand the YA to a lvl 3 I'd say get rid of the YA and forget about one for a few seasons, and possibly looking at scaling back money spent on the player salaries too.

Your member gains should stay healthy for a decent while, but such growth will not remain, and within a season or two i'd expect more of an increase each week of say 10-12. I'm back in Div 4 this season and my weekly increases starting with 1800 odd have been 1, 0, 1, 10, 9, 1, okay that's with relegating, but even without that 10 is a good number for me in Div 4.

Once finances are restored the next job will be to expand to a stadium of around 7,000 without any standing. But for now after you've scrapped the YA, and losing $63k I wouldn't wait long to do so, it's the player salaries in the senior squad to be looked at. Prize money for 4th is a little under $200k, but there should be better return in dropping the squad standard to good enough to stay in Div 4, and really it'd be nigh on impossible to lose a qualifier, perhaps missing out on 5% prize money and spending far, far less on player salaries.

Once your finances are sorted, and your stadium, you can then have a look at trying to win some prize money.

The last option is quitting and starting again, and spending a lot less from the off, and spending a lot less once you promote. I'd understand if you didn't want this option

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Re: Average member amount/Total salary increase

Post by Guest on Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:22 pm

Ok, I've ran the figures, and if I drop my youth academy and my kicking trainer, whilst gaining an average of 20 members/wk through the rest of this season, then I will hit parity in outgoings and incomings by the end of the season, and end at approx $180k down, roughly equating to 4th place prize.

If salary increases by the same as minor sponsor then I will be able to spend cup game income on stadium modification, and that will make my club profitable.

Cheers for the help...

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Re: Average member amount/Total salary increase

Post by ngater on Tue Jul 30, 2013 7:56 pm

Slightly belated, but drop the YA. There are lots of reasonable young players on the TM, they won't be U20 prospects but will strengthen your team and will cost far less than having a YA....

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Re: Average member amount/Total salary increase

Post by Guest on Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:43 pm

Ah rubbish, all my staff are still under contract so I don't have the funds to fire them. Have to look at the team I guess...

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Re: Average member amount/Total salary increase

Post by mattjair on Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:15 pm

i've had to do this, although not as extremely as you. sadly, it's pretty brutal.

first question - who do you think you're beating into 4th place? you may be right, i only had a really quick look, but i couldn't see an obvious candidate. given that your financial survival is so dependant on it - are you absolutely certain you can do it? because if not, you're almost certainly going to have to either fire-sale or restart anyway and you might as well take the pain...

if you're certain you can - basically, ditch everything with an associated cost. I wouldn't worry about training or the YA right now. You're a long way off having high standard training and in reality, you don't have any players that you are going to be desperate to train anyway. ditch the YA. Don't worry about the staff until you can ditch them without penalties, but lose all your physical assets. sell or fire a player that you can afford to lose - go right down to 22 playing staff. You might even get some money for Games, Bidder or Lee, although if selling them weakens your team hugely and means you miss 4th, if you get an injury just promote some crap from your YA for a week or suck up the 5k fine, depending on what you think will work better.

the other advice is great - you need to spend money on your stadium as your absolute no1 priority, or you never have any money for anything else. like everyone who starts out (alright, me) you went for the more fun stuff first... i feel your pain. first thing is definitely to lose the standing - reduce your costs. then start adding as and when you can do a decent chunk at once.

good luck.

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Re: Average member amount/Total salary increase

Post by quind on Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:33 am

And even if you can get 4th that's 10% of the prizemoney, finishing 5/6th is still 5%. Finishing 5/6th does mean a qualifier to stay in Div 4, but i don't see how one could lose one of those.

It really does seem a big spend to win an extra 5% of the prize fund.

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Re: Average member amount/Total salary increase

Post by Guest on Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:54 am

In my league there are 2 one clickers and a bot already, the one clickers will go bot at the halfway point. Three teams are miles out of my reach but one team who are above me in avg CSR I have already beaten away so am confident I can beat them at home. In this half of the season my last two games are against a bot and a one clicker, whilst his are against the two top teams so I expect to
hit the halfway point 3-4 points ahead...

I've been fiddling with my spreadsheet, and after destroying my YA, and sacking my stamina and kicking trainers (who were being underutilised anyway) and then sacking YA staff at the right time in wk13 I will be profitable by end of season with modest 20/wk member gains.

I also have a lock sub who I have never used due to my back rows making better subs that I'm gonna get rid of for another $6k a week to hasten the process.

I understand I could get rid of most players and stay in div 4 with more money but this isn't really the way I want to play the game, I've based my whole season beating this guy for 4th and personal pride is at stake...

On this path I should have around $130k after the cup run for stadium investments...

I really should have made this spreadsheet when I started!





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Re: Average member amount/Total salary increase

Post by quind on Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:05 am

Playing in such a way so as to have fun is no bad thing

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Re: Average member amount/Total salary increase

Post by mattjair on Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:34 am

hear hear. good luck fella.

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