The Dreaded Division 3...

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The Dreaded Division 3...

Post by Guest on Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:08 pm

Hello guys,

Last time I was on BR, I was buying and selling players merrily and went up Div V and IV in successive seasons quite easily, then got to Division 3 and for want of a better word got my arse handed to me on a plate repeatedly. I wasn't prepared at all, and threw a bit of a strop and left BR, daunted by what seemed like an impossible climb Embarassed

Now I'm back starting in Div V again. I've bought a fair few 17 year olds in, and built quite a handy squad to be going along with - I basically plan not to buy anymore players for the next few seasons, train the ones I have and look in the ol' YA.

Simple question is this: What is the best way to prepare oneself for life in the dreaded Div III? Will I have to accept a few yo-yo seasons when I get there, or is there any way I can make my club a bit better prepared in terms of finances, facilities et al for when (if of course) I get there? Any advice would be great chaps Smile

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Re: The Dreaded Division 3...

Post by quind on Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:55 pm

Well you'll have to plan, Div 4 isn't easy to promote from now.

With changes to the YA you might want to advance as quickly as possible to a lvl 3 YA, and then over time promote kids aged 19 through into your seniors (with a few still promoted at 17 of course)

That should feed a number of 50K CSR+ players into your squad, and give you something to build around, and possible something to sell dependent on how other managers continue to run their YA.

As regards the YA either moves as quickly as possible to run lvl 3 training, or simply leave it alone.

Quite likely you'll have to yo-yo, but if you get a nice Div 3 or an unexpected bot you may manage to go up and stay up. You'll need a first XV all really over 80K CSR, with some 100K CSR players in key areas, locks, back row, 10 and 15. You main kicker to be a 15 rated kicker at least, more likely 16. And you'd probably want to go up with a fair amount of money to be able to buy if needed.

You'll also want to have an 11-12K stadium (without standing) in place, possibly larger, by the time you advance to lvl 3. And likely to have at least lvl 4 seniors training. Lvl 5 senior training is doable, but I don't see it as a requirement to get into Div 3, and it is of course a big extra cost.

A simpler, but more boring method, is selling anyone rated over 20K CSR. Replacing as needed with 0 star players from the YA, and building an enormous war chest over the next 6-7 seasons. You might then be able to buy your way off the TM into Div 3.

If you're going to look to do it by building the standard of your squad I think you might be looking at 8-9 seasons before you get into Div 3, perhaps 10-11 before you can get there and be sure you can stay there.

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Re: The Dreaded Division 3...

Post by Guest on Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:09 pm

Right-o, things might have moved on somewhat from when I was last around. What level CSR squad will get me along OK in Div 4? As in, I don't mind staying in Div 4 and building for the future so long as I can avoid relegation and such. The Div 5 league I'm in currently has 4 bots and the 3 other teams look like guys who haven't logged in in a while and might go bot - the leaders drew with my bot team before I took them over.

So the best way I can start preparing for Div 3 at this early stage is to boost my YA along as quickly as possible? Is it just build up a level 3 YA facilities or having Level 3 coaches for them too?

Currently I have a squad averaging 30k CSR, but mostly very young, so have time to build that over a few seasons. To be honest I'd rather go the building squad route, it might be longer but I don't think I'd have the discipline to stay in Div 5 and sell all the best players and build up money over those seasons. I'd rather be playing games even if it is at a lower level with a competitive squad, yknow?

This is probably what daunted me before, the long road thought. It just felt like you'd have to have been playing the game since it first came out to have any chance of advancing, y'know? But I don't mind settling in for a long haul now.

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Re: The Dreaded Division 3...

Post by quind on Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:00 pm

Facilities and coaching need to be in sync, else training is only at the level of whichever is lowest. Just one note there, the higher level coach does allow for more TT (team training) slots, but at the facility's level and not the coach's level

I'm very lucky in having a Div 4 I can win, as a demoting team from Div 3 that would have walked the league went bot. My 1st XV avg is 62K CSR, and I'd get easily relegated from Div 3, and in many Div 4s wouldn't have a chance of winning the league also.

To survive in Div IV you're probably about okay if your avg is already 30K, unless you get very unlucky on the league you promote into. To think in terms of winning the league you'd likely want to be averaging over 70K in most Div 4 leagues. Though keep in mind there are some stupidly strong Div 4 sides in certain leagues - http://www.blackoutrugby.com/game/club.squad.php?squad=37495#squad=37495&player=all such as Moo's lot

To survive in Div 3 it's hard to call what you'd need. The degree to which other managers conserve energy and are possible TNT targets is hard to such a big factor. And how active managers are, and how much a promoting team would be targeted varies so much league to league. If you average over 70K CSR you'd be at a point where you'd stand a chance, dependent on how active the league is of staying in Div 3

You're likely very right that Div 4 in England is now much tougher. Frankly in many nations their Div 2 leagues aren't the same standard, and quicker progress can be made in many smaller nations.

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Re: The Dreaded Division 3...

Post by Guest on Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:31 pm

Right, gotcha. So upgrade each one at a time and keep them in sync, then you get the best outta them.

So at the moment my squad with a bit of training is strong enough to at least survive in Div 4? That's good. As long as I can survive I don't mind, means I can build steadily there. I don't mind being patient, so if I meet a stupidly strong team like that (which looks like it should be in III or even II tbh) I can say 'well okay I won't win it this year I'll consolidate and build my squad a bit more'.

Yeah, actually thinking back I think the time I did get to Division III was when I was managing a team in South Africa which didn't have as many teams/leagues, so I walked Div IV and most of the teams in it (about 5 of the 8 teams) went bot. Which probably in hindsight didn't help at all - I came from a league where I was playing bot teams most weeks into Div III which was fiercely competitive and I got smashed. At least in Div IV in England I'll be a bit more battle-hardened and I'll know what to expect. Thanks very much for your advice btw, I'm a lot less daunted now by what to expect Smile

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Re: The Dreaded Division 3...

Post by jimjam_w on Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:30 pm

I'm in my third season in Div IV and have to say that first season had a very strong team (comparitively) outclassed us all - Mega Man Al, but he really struggled in Div III even tho he was much better than any of our Div IV teams.

Last season, another strong team came down and aced the league, along with 3 other teams getting in strong players (Wales11 here) but this season its more even.

Even so, I'm only just affording to open lvl 3s and 13 of my top 15 are over 40K...top player 50K....I'm far too weak to get anywhere near promoting...will take me many more seasons to afford the stadium which will bring the money in to afford better wages. Its a long game Wink

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Re: The Dreaded Division 3...

Post by ben_fluleck on Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:12 pm

div III to come in the top half you need a 150k CSR player

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Re: The Dreaded Division 3...

Post by Guest on Sat Dec 15, 2012 11:19 pm

jimjam_w wrote:I'm in my third season in Div IV and have to say that first season had a very strong team (comparitively) outclassed us all - Mega Man Al, but he really struggled in Div III even tho he was much better than any of our Div IV teams.

Last season, another strong team came down and aced the league, along with 3 other teams getting in strong players (Wales11 here) but this season its more even.

Even so, I'm only just affording to open lvl 3s and 13 of my top 15 are over 40K...top player 50K....I'm far too weak to get anywhere near promoting...will take me many more seasons to afford the stadium which will bring the money in to afford better wages. Its a long game Wink

See I don't mind playing the long game this time around. If I know what to aim for and what I need to do I'm willing to do it. It's just previously I thought it was an impossible mountain to climb What a Face But now I'm ready for it.

Just a quick question - is it better overall to just stay in Division 4 for many many seasons, or is it better by chance to get promoted (if you can) to Div 3, get smashed and come back down, and yo-yo? Because on the one hand you get more money in sponsorship in Div 3 but on the other hand your contentment and attendance is presumably affected by being battered every week right?

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Re: The Dreaded Division 3...

Post by Flu444 on Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:01 am

i wrote the book on Yo-Yo'ing i did it for 7 seasons. It aint fun. quins number are a little off im afrid, its much worse than that. a 70k team would get dry humped and not in a good way!

Have a look at my team (Flu's 1st) or Raggs team which are both middle of the road div 3 teams. Obvously mine is better but dont tell Raggs that!

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Re: The Dreaded Division 3...

Post by Guest on Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:58 am

Haha, perhaps its a luck of the draw into which league in Div 3 you get? Maybe sometimes 70k teams are enough and most of the time they're not?

Hahah, will do Wink So did yo-yoing work for you or would you have rather just stayed in Div 4 the whole time and built there? See I don't know just how much your attendances/contentment etc takes a hit when you get pummelled in Div 3 and come down again, is it worth the extra sponsorship money you get?

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Re: The Dreaded Division 3...

Post by Raggs on Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:27 am

I got lucky and went straight up and stayed. Though my team was a little better than a 70k team, it wasn't by much. Almost every player was good at his job though, not many one skill wonders.
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Re: The Dreaded Division 3...

Post by Guest on Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:09 pm

From most of your posts Raggs it seems the emphasis is on a team full of balanced all-round players rather than some individual stars. I like that philosophy. At the moment down in Div 5 I'm focusing on building my pack first and have got a decent kicker (popped to level 12 in his first league match) to pick up the points before working on my backline, but I assume by Div 3 you have to be strong across the board.

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Re: The Dreaded Division 3...

Post by Wilz on Sun Dec 16, 2012 2:40 pm

You certainly do. Admittedly I have 2 weak links in my team but my csr average is around 132k and I only just stayed up last season. Admittedly one player boosts that average but even without him it is 118k.

Luck of the draw, your strategy for the season and individual game tactics obviously play a huge role though and if you get those right you can stay up with a "weaker" team than mine.
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Re: The Dreaded Division 3...

Post by quind on Sun Dec 16, 2012 3:24 pm

Flu444 wrote: quins number are a little off im afrid, its much worse than that. a 70k team would get dry humped and not in a good way!

That's holding me to a standard I don't believe in. I think the 70K can get you promoted to Div 3, but you'd need a team over 80K with some select players over 100K to have a chance at staying up, unless very lucky.

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Re: The Dreaded Division 3...

Post by jimjam_w on Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:53 pm

Its interesting - I've always been convinced by raising the quality of the whole team - not buying in 3 or 4 stars off the TM to get you promoted - always fearful of the injury or two that wipes those star players out.

My focus, for what its worth, is on staying in Div IV and making myself profitable. I am turning profits this season but only managed a modest stadium upgrade last season...I need a $600K stadium upgrade to get the most out of the members I've got. I can't see any other way than building the money through ticket sales before having the players with the big CSRs and big wages I'll need for Div III.

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Re: The Dreaded Division 3...

Post by quind on Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:12 pm

I'd stage that in 2 increases of $300k around 2 seasons apart. If possible, and if prize money is needed it might not be, have the rebuild done ready at the start of a new season to take advantage of any home cup games.

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